Discussion Gender bender is horrible, why do people like it?

Discussion in 'Novel General' started by Testtube10, May 23, 2024.

?

Do you like Gender bender?

  1. Yes,I love it.

  2. I'm ok with it.

  3. I can ignore it.

  4. No, I avoid it.

  5. Wtf is that?

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Testtube10

    Testtube10 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2021
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    9
    Reading List:
    Link
    Wtf is up with the increasing amount of gender bender novels everywhere? I dislike this genre, it's on the same level as harem for me, I see ok novels... once in a blue moon. I just don't understand why.

    Often it's men turning into hot women, boys permanently transforming into PRETTY girls. The story has them enjoying their new pretty privileges, being popular, looking at their own pretty body in the mirror, saying this is what it's like to be a girl and it's not as bad as they thought. No. That is not what it's like to be a girl at all. That's what it's like to be a PRETTY girl. You would have the same results if you just suddenly transformed into a hot and handsome guy. If you just want a story about a MC that suddenly has pretty privileges, write that instead. The female part is redundant.

    And I've seen novel with girls dressing as boys (it's never permanent), and we don't have the same problem here, but a new problem: the girls dress male to usually be taken seriously or to do their job, but no, doesn't happen. Instead, they are coddled by the men anywhere they go, aren't able to do anything, and basically everyone fawns over them for no reason and the hot guys around her, her 'friends', gets confused in their sexuality. It's basically shoujo with extra steps. No. That does not happen irl either. And again, if the author wants to write something like this, write about a girl in that situation. The male part is redundant.

    And this is really common. MCs use their new gender to 'get closer' to the opposite gender, no, now same sex gender. And they create a 'platonic' harem for themselves... that is usually sexualized and not platonic at all. And everyone fawns over them. It's gross that people go around fantasizing about being trans just so they can have an opportunity to harass people of the opposite sex and not be called out by it.

    Most importantly, I feel like gender bender is reinforcing gender norms instead of breaking them. It's like writers think, to include a somewhat masculine or unconventional girl MC in a novel, they have to make the novel gender bender and make them a guy who turned into a girl or it doesn't make sense. No, girls can like soccer and be messy and not be interested in romance! That is normal! You don't have to make excuses for your girls not being 'girl-like' and it 'not being your first time writing a girl', girls come in all shapes and sizes! Same for the boys! Because of this I think we're also seeing a decrease in good novels with unique protagonists- the authors just turn them all into gender benders.

    I would like this trope a lot better, and it would make a lot more sense if it was about characters who transitioned in the irl way, through surgery or just because they decided they wanted to be male/female. Instead we have this redundant bag of tropes. And I have no idea why.

    If you disagree with me, please tell me why, I would so dearly like to know.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2024
  2. Nimroth

    Nimroth Someone

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    4,087
    Likes Received:
    3,639
    Reading List:
    Link
    I would say that I both love and hate the genre at the same time, or rather I love the idea of it but think most stories using it is trash.
    So I can't really defend any of the tropes listed here since I for the most part agree, but I can't really avoid the genre altogether either because I want to actually find the rare stories that do take the topic seriously.

    I do like the idea of stories where people have their bodies transformed unwillingly( not limited to gender transformations), but it is totally wasted if it is just done for comedy and/or not showing the protagonist struggling to either adapt or find a way to transition back to their original sex/gender.
    I wouldn't mind seeing more stories where the main character is already trans as well, I can agree that would be way better than a transformed character that just instantly accepts/enjoys their new sex without having ever wanted or considered it before.
     
  3. Lalriin-Uyanga

    Lalriin-Uyanga Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2024
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    3
    Reading List:
    Link
    Tbh the only two gender bender novels I've read have both been good. Maybe that's because the gender bending part was never the main focus. They were male characters who just happened to get gender bent and they honestly were not much different from female protagonists.

    Imo they did it to appeal more to male readers. I think it's just the trend now. It will probably lay down after a while.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2024
  4. SilverMist721

    SilverMist721 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2021
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    89
    Reading List:
    Link
    Well I just ok with this troupe.

    I don't like the permanent change ones and don't read them either. I feel quite same as you for these ones.

    Though I have tried the ones in which FL has disguised herself. (Only those ones actually.)

    It is a bit annoying for the romance genre as it turns into 'FL is great but ML is more great' for many cases but there were few novels where it was not used in this way. I liked those ones.

    In one of such novels that I liked, I remember FL disguised and no one did something like 'He's a boy but seems like a girl' / 'This boy has feminine features so let's bully him' and there was proper power struggle going on as it was in ancient times background. And ML was just redundant. Haha.

    I also remember an arc in a QT novel where both FL and ML had disguised and there was a valid reason for that.

    And there was also a NoCP/No Romance martial arts novel where FL (once again) disguised and there was 'Jianghu power struggle'.

    Content was good in those.

    So while I agree with you, I'll also say there are some good ones as well.
     
    Testtube10 likes this.
  5. Testtube10

    Testtube10 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2021
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    9
    Reading List:
    Link
    Yet to see something like that, plz gimme the name of the novel, I would sincerely love to read it. There are so few good novels these days... one I haven't read yet, I mean. T^T

    Yeah, I also dislike it when the protagonist loses agency in any way, 'FL is great but ML is more great' is the worst. Just make the ML the protagonist then! The valid reason part is, yeah, I've yet to see a good one.

    The only good gender bender novel I have read is The Empress's Livestream, and there's a couple of other 'just decent' ones, usually novels where the gender bender is a very small part of the novel and lasts for a short while (In which case it's more of a tag, not a genre), but I still stand my case: the genre still doesn't add much to the novels. It's either redundant, and the novel's good without it, or the genre itself just ruins the novel completely. The ones I've seen are like that, anyway.
     
  6. SilverMist721

    SilverMist721 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2021
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    89
    Reading List:
    Link
    (I don't have first two's names since I had seen them long before after all. )

    Chronology of a Hundred Herbs (the 3rd one I told you about)
    You Look Like You’re Drawing Me

    Both are from same author and NoCP ones. Both MCs disguise themselves. I think you will like them.
     
    Testtube10 likes this.
  7. Testtube10

    Testtube10 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2021
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    9
    Reading List:
    Link
    Ty, you're right, I can tell just by the first chapter and the summary that these ones aren't bad. I like em, and I'm soooo happy there's a plausible reason to why they are crossdressing, I've almost NEVER seen that before. >O<
    Think I'll change my statement to only include the permanent magic transformation type gender benders (that also do not provide any explanation on how the transformation takes place), those ones are still nasty.
     
    SilverMist721 likes this.
  8. CreativeCriticalThinker

    CreativeCriticalThinker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2022
    Messages:
    2,800
    Likes Received:
    5,023
    Reading List:
    Link
    I noticed that many of these Gender Bender Stories (Manga, Anime, Manhwa or Japanese + Korean Dramas) don't really explore the complexity of gender identity & fluidity + sexuality and the possibility that the Male Lead is bisexual.

    A common pattern:
    Either the Leading Man just ignores or forgets that his transformed Leading Lady was ever a man, is very relieved that his close mate turns out to be a crossdressing woman, or he already knew or somehow figured out that his FL is disguising herself as a man.....
    Whatever the scenario in this Gender Bender Plot, the ML is totally straight/heterosexual at the end.

    Historical fun fact:
    I Don't Want to Be a Man / Ich möchte kein Mann sein (1918)
    MV5BNjk5ZThiZTItYTFiMi00N2IyLTkxZTYtZjYwYTdiMWIyNWE4XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTI3MDk3MzQ@._V1_.jpg

    In this old Comedic Crossdressing German Silent Film, it is implied or hinted that the ML is either bisexual or doesn't mind when two people of the same sex make out when they are drunk.

    LGBT Film History: The Early Years (1910s – 1920s)

    01.06.2019
    In this video essay, I take a look at early cinematic depictions of homosexuality, especially during the Weimar era (1919 – 1933) in Germany. 28 May 2019 marked the 100th anniversary of the release of "Anders als die Andern" (1919) which was the first LGBT-themed film in history.

    Films that I talk about include "A Florida Enchantment" (1914), "Salomé" (1923), "Michael" (1924), "Die Büchse der Pandora" (1929), "Mädchen in Uniform" (1931) and "The Sign of the Cross" (1932).
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2024
    Testtube10 likes this.
  9. Yanamari

    Yanamari Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2021
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    141
    Reading List:
    Link
    It's okay at best. Imo, it depends on how they utilize the trope. I've read a considerably large amount of gender benders e.g. Fake saint of the year, and I am my wife (the title was too amusing not to read). I enjoyed both for different reasons but not because of the gender bender aspect
     
    Testtube10 likes this.
  10. Testtube10

    Testtube10 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2021
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    9
    Reading List:
    Link
    I read Fake saint of the year, not the other one. Fake Saint of the Year was great. Maybe I'll try the other one too, lmao.

    Personally that's what I have a problem with. The gender bender never really seems to add anything to the story. The good books with gender bender would be the same, or even better, if the gender bender didn't happen.

    As a tomboy, I am always thirsting for relatable female characters, especially those without romance, and it feels like any books that actually have relatable female characters nowadays usually get the added bonus that they were genderbent. Some part of the story is always wasted on how they're a girl now and they start acting creepy towards their own body, which is weird. It messes up the entire novel for me. Even Fake Saint of the Year is guilty with this, or so I remember.

    And I'll also add that gender bender should be a tag, not a genre like it's currently being treated in novelupdates. I dunno why they do that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2024