Annoyed with Gender Bender in the Yuri tags

Gender is a biological thing! At least it was until "In the 1970s, feminist theory embraced the concept of a distinction between biological sex and the social construct of gender." And sex and gender got differentiated in the "western world".
And maybe the countries where these novels come from still see it in biological meaning: female body having a relationship with a female body is yuri. That's all for the definiton, idk.

 

Honestly, tags can be messy and really up to interpretation i mean there are people who also label a gb in a biological relation ship yaoi too soo yea... Although if we are going by biological definitions (personally i say that gender is a biological thing than a social constuct, i cant exactly transform my self into a girl by saying im one after all) it would qualify since that former male is now a biological girl.

Also just me, i read gb for the confusion, the learning to live with their current gender or their stuggles in trying to reject it and the reactions of those around them.

Regarding the whole ignoring the stuggles of being a trans woman part, honestly speaking, at least in the jp lns, in most stories i dont think its even a consideration/factor in the first place. Some might just be the author thinking it might be fun or simply hopping on the hype bandwagon. Last i checked it isnt really a hot topic in jp aside from a few controversies where people are sending death threats over genders of fictional characters.

 

I see gay and lesbian are relationships between people who have the same biological sex, so I still consider the major novels with MtF + the love interest is girl(s) as a lesbian relationship.

But I understand why you guys find it uncomfortable to read, tho. As for me, I feel like I read a poorly written hetero novel, so I don't quite like most of them.

If you guys read CN GL back then (around early 2000 to 2015), you can find a lot of lesbian novels written by female authors about relationship between trans man vs women or butch vs femme that have similar writing styles. So I don't think the author's gender is the problem, and the problem is how they understand the lesbian community.

I think this yuri MtF genre is a trend in some yuri fanbases, not the world in general, tho. Anyway, they forget that yuri FtM genre is a similar yet different thing in the GL community, and authors of this type are primarily female, I guess.

 

Don't want to start a flame war about gender as there's too much misinformation poisoning the wells of knowledge out there.
It's my fault for bringing up gender, but when you're talking about the tags it's impossible not to.

I can agree with that, but I find most GB yuri doesn't venture into this aspect, or if they do it's not deep or not for long. GB has become, imo, largely about a guy acting as a woman getting all the women because he's different than other women.

 

Most regular yuri harem novels or harem novels in general have a story like this, tho.

I think the problem is MC still believes they're a man inside, even though they act like a female.

If you don't like translated MtF yuri, then you can ingore it or read MTL, I believe that you can find novels that suit your taste on Syosetu and SFACG because not all authors of this genre are a potato, tho.

 

You're right, I can just find something I like and ignore the MtF Yuri. The problem is two-fold though.
1. GB "Yuri" has begun to dominate the novel listings and as such it's becoming increasingly difficult to filter through what I don't like to find what I like. And because of that we get...
2. Most new GB isn't Yuri imo, and as such I think the tag for yuri should be removed from them, thereby reducing the amount of GB "yuri" people need to sort through. Of course, this would require a bit of review and it would in the end be subjective so it's not really a solution anyway.
As for MTL? I can't stand it and find trying to read and understand it to be a slog. Pronouns, anecdotes, and puns are completely destroyed by MTL. I can't coherently read the languages so that's off the table for me (though I am making progress with my Japanese). That's a me problem though, but I recognize that because I can't enjoy MTL my options are a lot more limited.
I expected at least one person to come in and say "If you don't like it, don't read it", which ignores the point of the post honestly.

 

1. If you talk about the new update list on NU, I only find nearly half of the list on the 1st page is MtF. Compared to the amount of CN raws, I find it normal because MtF ones mainly come from SFACG, a big CN site that adopted JP LN cultured. The other yuri ones are primarily from jjwxc.

You can remove GB from the filter list if you don't want to see it.

2. If you want to remove MtF from yuri search list, then you should change the belief of the significant readers or community about what yuri is first. MtF yuri isn't a new thing, and you don't like it not because of the MtF thing, just how the author developed MC, which is usually quite weird because many of them never lived in a female body or did research.

Actually, the MtF thing also appeared in standard lesbian novels where the author couldn't distinguish what are trans man, butch lesbian, and stud lesbian, then mixed them, and I don't think Western web novel readers and translators are interested in that, so you may find your weird feeling only happened in GB ones.

You rant about something you can hide from your eyes, but still, you want to read them with the hope that some may suit your taste, tho. Maybe I should recommend that you ask GB MTL readers to suggest some novels you like, and then you beg translators to translate it?

 

Half of all yuri novels on the first page is a ridiculous amount, imo. If you liked novels with serious action, but half of the novels tagged action had all the fights being slapstick comedy, wouldn't you be annoyed?

This doesn't solve the problem that a lot of new Yuri is GB, which reduces the amount of Yuri works that are now translated.

I'm aware of that. I even mentioned earlier Kashimashi (thought that's not a novel). MtF Yuri isn't new. What's new is the amount and the shift in the way that story is told.

Yes, that was the entire point of this post. My "weird feeling" only occurs in GB "Yuri" novels because most of them are written from the male perspective with only a nod to them being in a female body. That's not to say that all of them are like that. Some of them have enough nuance to touch of the subject of gender dysphoria and adjusting to a new body. But even those are becoming increasingly rarer.

Hiding them from my eyes doesn't change the fact that the trend has shifted MORE yuri novels in this direction resulting in LESS yuri novels that fit the standard of actual yuri.

Recommend what you want, but MTL isn't readable and breaks the flow and intent of the story. I'm not going to beg anyone, even actual translators, to translate something just because it matches my preferences. That's selfish and ignorant. If the trends have changed then that's the way it is. That doesn't mean I can't point out how I see it as flawed and comment on it. I didn't realize that opinions had to be regulated and that you were the opinion police....

 

Because your opinions are full of conflict, tho, you want your things, but you don't like to change. The fact that the number of translated novels only reflects the reality in the CN Baihe community from when they rose. Back then, on NU, not many GB readers beg translators to translate novels like some friends here now, tho.

Nah, GB won't change the amount of normal yuri. Translators in this NU community are mostly hobby translators, they translate what they like.

 

My opinion is only full of conflict because you want to find conflict with... an opinion. So, full stop on that.

I don't want anything. I just pointed out a trend and expressed my dissatisfaction with it.

This is factually wrong. Trends change genres and the number of released novels within those genres. It's a fact of life. If you think they don't then you're ignorant on business and trends. I've looked into Baihe and Yuri works and more of them are GB, while less are standard yuri. As trends tend to have things happen.

They can translate what they like I have absolutely no problem with that and I'm not criticizing the translators. But if more of the content within a genre is geared toward a certain preference then more of that will be translated. It's simple math.

 

Do you really check the names of the translator teams, tho? GB novels are mostly translated by shounen JP-based groups, and the AI sth group is owned by a member here who is also interested in GB.

Teams prefer non-GB aren't active much, I can guess why, lol. Many baihe/yuri readers tend to read MTL, and they don't talk much, unlike some MTL GB readers on NU who try to advertise their beloved in the Novel Pickup Request sub-forum.

The interest hasn't shifted; the active teams are more active, and that's all.

P/s: Do you know what? I found out that some novels that I recommended a lot to others when they ask for raw back then got translated, no advertise no one will know them, lol.

 

I'm so tired of this. I've donated to translators. I've followed translator sites. I subscribed to some of their Discords. I guess it's easier for you to tell me what I'm doing wrong when you know NOTHING about what I've done.
I'm sure you can guess why non-GB aren't active as much. I'll tell you why. Because non-GB isn't as trendy. Because with a GB story you can squeeze in that popular audience from the shounen and harem crowd while PRETENDING to be a yuri. But guess what? When a genre shifts because a trend changes that genre, there will be less of the original genre to pick from because it will be EVEN LESS POPULAR than before.
Good for GB readers for begging for GB on the NU forums. I want them to read what they want to read. It doesn't change the fact behind the trends changing the available novels in the Yuri genre.
As much as I hate MTL I've used it to find new yuri and baihe titles, and guess what I found? Less yuri and more GB yuri. I'm not talking about GB outnumbering standard yuri. I'm talking about a trend of more GB and less standard yuri on the whole.
So, you can stop now. Your smug self-worth is nothing more than you not recognizing reality because someone else doesn't like what you like.
Good job, be proud of yourself. You can go to sleep feeling like a winner in your own mind because your genre is more popular. So popular that it changes other genres. Just like the trend of ABO changed a few other genres as well.
You're the type of person who isn't happy unless everyone agrees with them. People aren't allowed to have differing opinions because only YOUR opinion can be right even if every fact shows that you might be wrong. You make assumptions, you speculate on people's actions and thoughts with the self assuredness of an Emperor who only listens to the eunuchs in his own court. I've met so many people like you who can't accept reality because it differs from their preferences that it's exhausting talking to each and every one of you. So, enjoy yourself. Enjoy your favorite genres, like everyone else. Just know that I don't honestly care what you have to say anymore.

 

What you have done doesn't reflect the whole community. Western yuri/baihe novel readers are small and aren't too active in the first place, I can see it on NU, many dead Discord channels, and Reddit. They are even divided into groups that usually don't communicate with each other.

You claim that GB yuri is a new trend now, but have your favorite translator groups started translating GB novels even though the translator said that they didn't like this genre before? Or did your baihe/yuri reader friends begin to love GB because they flooded NU? If not, GB yuri isn't the new trend as you believe. It only reflects what hobby translators and active audiences like to read.

Anyways, you are bitter about others giving opinions that you don't like, tho.

 

I never said that GB yuri is new, however the trend has been increasing in the last ten years. I've been reading Yuri for over twenty years, and in the last two years the amount of GB yuri has been increasing astronomically. If that's not a new trend I don't know what is. You seem pretty young to me.

No.

No

So because the groups that translate yuri aren't translating GB that means GB isn't new? Did you read my earlier post about looking for new yuri using MTL and finding way more GB and less standard yuri than in the past? That means that I've looked at available yuri works using MTL in the past too, btw. I've spent a loooooooooooong time reading from translator websites, discord, and reddit groups. I've only joined NU last year because it was simpler to get updates for new translators.

I'm bitter that I've had to share oxygen with an idiot who doesn't understand basic math. I honestly don't mind if you enjoy GB and don't like standard yuri, but being factually wrong and trying to claim that you're not because: "My genre is more popular now" is the dumbest thing I've read all week.

It does not only reflect that. It also reflects the popular trends and what's available to translate. You are hands down the most infuriatingly stupid and selective hearing impaired individual I've ever had the discomfort to talk to.

 

Gender bender is but a symptom. Yuri catered for males is going to be written as a self-insert for male readers, just like Yaoi is written as a self-insert for female readers.

 

Do you really check the GB translator groups? I ask you this 2nd time. Do you really think they will translate your yuri novels? You wrote before more GB translations = fewer non-GB translations, and now some shit like "what's available to translate". Do you know where they can get raw from?

The popular trend for which readers? I wrote before GB isn't a new trend or popular if you insist it must be "popular", they're always there, and now, thanks to AI or sth like that, the translation process is faster.

Anyways, where I wrote "GB is more popular now", tho. Plz, quote it again for me.