Spoiler Death Is The Only Ending For The Villain

oh my god XDDD same tho XDD

i also read from those and then continued with the spoiler ely san posts since they are ahead^^

 

I believe the author never had the intention to justify the abusive family action, at least I didn't have this feeling while reading the novel and the spoilers here. The fact that the family wasn't aware of how much abusive is their behavior doesn't mean that "it's not their fault". It's not this kind of meaning. But in real life it's true that a lot of people doesn't realize they are acting abusive, a lot of people can't even think that their behavior is wrong. It's something that they do not realize, or if they do realize they don't want to admit it. Does this justify their actions? Absolutly not. Never. It's just how life goes. In an abusive relationship the perpetrator of the abuse doesn't realize that what he is doing is abuse, in a lot of cases. Again, does this mean it wasn't his fault? Of course it was his fault, of course he still is an abuser. The fact that Penelope never forgave her family until the end is the perfect example to show that they will always be guilty for what they've done. No matter if they didn't really mean it, no matter if they are now regretful, they mistreated her and the scars they left to her will never fade. The author never intended to justify their actions, but wanted to show how the mind of an abuser works most of the time.

 

^Yeah pretty much this. Having suffered at someone's hands does not give you free clearance to be spiteful and vindictive. The only ways I see revenge as completely justified are if A) it's in self-defense, and B) that person is liable to hurting others in the future. I know Novelupdates tends to be incredibly bloodthirsty when it comes to reincarnation novels, but reveling in and living off of the suffering of others- deserved or not- is a surefire way to erode a person. As an aside, The Count of Monte Cristo is a novel that explores the nuances of this very well.

When it comes to abusive relationships, the best thing you can do for yourself is to walk away. We see that here: Penelope is her own independent self, she's free from her family and there's no way they can convince her to stay. It also fits her as a character vs taking revenge because, on the whole, her entire goal is just to live peacefully either in her old world or the new one. She doesn't strike me as the kind of person who'd stir things up or want to get involved in any more drama.

 

Completely agree with this, @Kat Rina, and @LockedPuppet posts. Both families are never forgiven nor are their actions ever justified. Penelope's choice to not forgive them is probably the best punishment that she could give them as they will have to live with their regret for the rest of their lives. Sometimes, regret is the best punishment one can give a person.

The original world family only realize that their actions were wrong when she was on her death bed. Since she's chosen to not return to that world her body there would have died and the family will have to live the rest of their life with the knowledge that they'll never get to apologize to her or make things right, and that she died with only negative memories of them. Even in the hospital scene, she was furious when she heard both of the brothers' confessions and it's clear that she wouldn't forgive them.

Likewise, none of the actions of the Eckart family have earned her forgiveness and she's cut ties with them. She wants to treat Derick as a stranger from now on, so now he will have to live knowing the women he loves wants nothing to do with him. The Duke failed to put in enough effort to earn her forgiveness and now must live knowing she no longer wants him to be her "father." I imagine her decision for Reynald will also fall somewhere between how she'll treat Derick and the Duke in the future. Reynald will no longer be her brother but maybe one day she'll talk to him again if they meet. Or maybe she'll decide that despite him helping her escape the Dukedom, his past actions are too unforgivable and she'll never speak to him again either. Either way, all parties will be left with nothing but their regret.

Penelope has already said it before, she is a "pacifist." She doesn't want to confront people or to seek revenge. She just wants to live peacefully and move on. She doesn't want to dwell on the past anymore. The fact that she burnt everything in the furnace room indicates that. She cutting off everything that reminds her of the past and is moving forward with her new life. Where can she get that happiness by seeking revenge? If she were to dwell on revenge, she'll only be stuck in the memory of the misery she's faced throughout her life and never be able to overcome it. So she's freed herself from that misery by cutting off contact with them. She even tries to do it peacefully because she doesn't want any more confrontation. She only wants it to be over and she doesn't actively want to hurt others to make herself feel better.

 

just like what others said, Penelope doesn't seems to be fueled by anger but by the will to survive and live her life. her teenage life is pitch dark, I think more than anything she wants to get away from there and regain control of her life. As for her brothers not knowing what they're doing well the issue I think stand on the fact that they kept doing her wrong. Example, Derick he took her for granted and expected that he just had to do better which is kinda reasonable BUT he failed and didn't trust her several time and kept doing the same errors. If they don't learn the "if you mess up, you're done" nothing will change.

I think I saw a video about it from Jaiden animation: because the brothers (especially derick) are indeed kinda similar to toxic boyfriends / people that expect you to fix them when in reality you as another person are not responsible of their wrong doing. Plus first thing first, they have to see their errors first which don't happen the first time and the second time and so on.... It's important being aware you can't excuse then forever and people's responsibility/mistake aren't yours.

 

The Count of Monte Cristo is about revenge, but my main issue isn't the lack of revenge on Penelope's part but more on how the author treats the characters. Penelope got away and largely escaped, yes, but the abusers escaped any real justice or consequences for their actions. Knowing the girl you 'love' is with someone else doesn't count.

I'll frame it without some of the family dynamics are people are a lot more forgiving of abusers if they're 'family' for some reason. Imagine if the story was about an abusive priest and an alterboy or orphan under their care. After years of abuse the child grows up and leaves. The priest's heartbreak at this outcome isn't any kind of justice and the fact that the story has framed them as sympathetic enough for people to actually root for them getting together is disgusting - and is basically what this story does.

 

That's not at all how it was framed. Just because they were displayed in a sympathetic light doesn't mean the story wants us to root for them.

Yeah, Penelope's family is shown to be somewhat sympathetic but overall in those scenes we're clearly supposed to be rooting for Penelope and supposed to be happy that she's finally able to let out on them. The part where Callisto blocks off Derek, for example, from pestering Penelope about staying was played as triumphant and Penelope finding someone she can trust/breaking out of her dependence on her older brother.

It kind of sounds like you don't like the fact that they were given any sympathy at all, it's still perfectly possible for a character to be a bad or abusive person and be given sympathy. Umineko: When Seagulls Cry does an amazing example of this, and from a character that's shown to be a total bitch at the beginning no less (Eva).

And everyone here would argue against the fact that they got away scot-free.

Derek for example has to live with the fact that he's essentially failed as a big brother TWICE and that he let his second chance slip right from under him because he was still hung up about messing up in his first. Remember, his first failure still torments him to the day. There's also the fact that he knows that out of his family Penelope actively hates him the most.

In the case of the Duke think of it like this. He's had his realization the earliest but every single one of his attempts to redeem himself to Penelope went up in smoke. He's had to see how the environment he directly created nearly drives Penelope to suicide.

I left out Reynold since we haven't seen him yet in the Extra Stories.

Basically, their karma is moreso emotional and psychological than it is physical

Basically even if they're given sympathy the scenes clearly want us to side with Penelope and she is presented as unambiguously in the right to leave them. The sympathy comes from the fact that they've realized they messed up horribly with her but it's too late for them to do anything with the distant hope that maybe they can reconcile in the future.

 

Pretty much this, yeah. I don't mind some tiny infinitesimally small sliver of sympathy if there's been enough setup to justify it, enough time spent showing just how completely and utterly vile their actions are - but that's not really possible in this format of story.

Ultimately it feels like the author takes some of the vilest most disgusting actions anyone can be guilty of (child abuse), something that IMO means you no longer qualify as being a human being any longer, makes it into a a character and gives it infinitely more sympathy than it deserves.

I also really dislike this part and absolutely disagree that it counts as any real kind of karma. Esp. when they're still nobles, still in positions of power over others and still the same people who've shown themselves to be unable of really changing their ways time and time again.

 

Look, I don't want to sound condescending but a morally reprehensible character shown to be given sympathetic traits or moments is called and is an example of character depth. Because humans, yes even terrible ones, are rarely if ever just one note.



Humans no matter how sympathetic are always capable of cruelty. People, even people you hate, will have their own positive and negative traits, sympathetic and unsympathetic qualities regardless of their alignment. The fact that there are terrible humans does not change the fact that they're humans.




The Duke, Derrick, and Reynold are people with sympathetic traits and the capability to do good but give in to their negative traits. The fact that they are susceptible to change, have humanizing interactions, and have more to their characters than puppykicking mustache twirlers is what makes them engaging. They feel like actual humans and this makes their interactions interesting. If they were one note the story would be way less interesting and way more predictable. Its what makes it fun to watch when they mess up.


And yes these characters did change. Derek realized his feelings about Penelope and that he couldn't just buy her love, Reynald realized how needlessly cruel he was to a girl who only took his sisters place by circumstance and the same thing for the Duke. Penelope denying them the opportunity to act on those realizations and become a family again is what makes her departure so satisfying.



With all due respect, if the story went the way your critiques want them to go, not only would it suck the depth out of it, but it would render it another shallow revenge porn.


And as a side note it seems you conflate "sympathy" with "justification". Those two are not mutually inclusive traits. Also note that I'm not justifying anything they've done either.

 

The point is that an abuser is still a human being. You don't become an abuser from nowhere. The fact that the author explained why they became like this isn't his/her way to convince us that "they are good people who did bad things". If I write a story about a killer and explain why he/she became a killer, I don't have any intention to justify his/her actions. But I can understand what brought him or her to evolve in an assassin. I may pity him/her, feel sad for what he/she has been going throught, but that doesn't mean I agree with his/her behavior.

The punishment given to the whole Eckart family is a really hurtful punishment. Of course, It would have been also satisfing seeing them lose their title as noble, but I believe that losing Penelope once and far all, forever, is already a big punishment, and they will feel regretful for their rest of their life.

Let's start with the duke. The duke lost his real daughter when she was just a child, and not long after the duchess passed away. After some times, he believed he started a new life with his adoptive daughter, but then she killed his real daughter (at least her body) and said to him she will never be his daughter, she will never consider him a father, she will never give him the chance to obtain the family he wished for a long time ago. He will have to live for the rest of his life with the awareness that he had the opportunity to have the family he hoped for, but ruined this chance with his own hands. And that the girl he considers as his own daughter will always sees him as a cruel, horrible man. It's an emotional and eterna punishment he will have to live with for the rest of his life. He lost Yvonne at first, and now he lost Penelope because of his own actions. He failed not only as a person, but also as a father twice. He will never see his real daughter again, and his adoptive daughter won't come back to him neither forgive him. Trust me, for a parent this is one of the most hurtful punishment.

Let's go to Derrick. Derrick who lost Yvonne and always blamed himself because couldn't stay by her side. Derick who always felt guilty because his little sister vanished before his eyes. Derrick who tried (in the worst way) to prevent this from happening to Penelope as well, and thus caged her in the Eckart house, is now told by the same Penelope that she hates him and will always hate him, she will never forgive him. If losing Yvonne wasn't his fault (though he believes so), this time instead it's totally his fault, and there's no chance to redeem himself. And not because Penelope is dead, like Yvonne, but because she will never give him this opportunity, not now and not in the future. This is the worst punishment it could have been given to him. To someone like Derrick who tried everything to prevent another family member to abandon him. To someone like him who was so infatueted by Penelope to wish to cage her in the house was said by the same Penelope "I will always be free, I will always go where I want, to whom I want, and you will never know, you who ruined me so much and wished for my love will never have the chance to stay by my side, see me happy and be happy with me. You didn't lose only my trust in you, you lost all my emotions to you, and now the only thing I feel for you is hatred and resentment. For the rest of you life, you will see me smile and happy, but will never have the chance to be part of my world, the world you wished so much to obtain."

For Derrick is an hurtful punishment, considering he wished so much to be a part of Penelope happiness, the reason she smiles. But now the same woman he loved so much (in a twisted way, of course) doesn't even care if he is dead or alive. And it's all his faul. All of that was done by him. He literally lost Yvonne with his own hands and now he lost (metaphorically) Penelope in the same way. He will not be considered by her not as a brother, not as a lover and neither as living human being. Just as a horrible piece of trash towards whom she feel only disgust.

As for Reynolds, we still haven't read his conversation with Penelope in the side stories, so I don't know what she will tell him, but I already know that he is also receiving the punishment for his actions. It started from the very moment he helped Penelope escape from the Eckart's house soon after she woke up from poison. In that moment, Reynolds realizd he doesn't have a chance to redeem himself, because the mistreatment started due to him, the day he framed her with Yvonne's necklace. He can't even say sorry for this, and even if he does, he will not be forgiven. He may have hated her for replacing his sister, but now that he finally sees her for who she really is he will never have the possibility to treat her as a sister or as a friend. She will always hate him, always remind him that everything started because of him, because he was a coward who couldn't let go of his lost sister's memory. So now he has to live with the awareness that he could have been happy with her, but never will because he realized it too late.

All of this may seem as a small punishment, but it isn't. Losing their noble title for the Eckart family wouldn't hurt like it hurts now for them having lost Penelope. Not only her, but also her affection.

 

Whilst I understand your frustration, as the current topic is about the actual ending of the novel, this cannot be discussed in the "discussion thread" as it is a spoiler and neither the English translations nor the manhwa are finished. If new users have arrived here and are lost at where to start with this thread, I'd advise starting at pages 28/29 as this is where the spoilers for Callisto birthday celebrations begin which is where the current English translations are. The rest of the thread is actually really good as there is usually at least 1/2 spoilers per page from then onwards.

I don't really think any of us will change your mind on how you view how the author deals with the family so I won't comment much more on this. But my final disagreements are towards how you think they're unable to change. As we have seen throughout the novel, they all have changed - yes even Derick has made baby steps in changing his behavior.

The Duke progressed from having no interest in her life to actively trying to be involved despite not knowing how to do this. At the start of the novel, he believed what the servants told him about her and made no effort to be involved with her. But once she began calling him "father" again, had her throat cut my Callisto, and when she went missing during the festival, he became more involved in caring for her well-being. When he told Derick to remain in his office after Penelope first arrived back with Eclise during the firework festival, I always imagined their conversation to have been him reprimanding Derick as Penelope is a Duke's daughter yet had not a single escort and to ask why this was the case. Then once he realized that the kitchen staff were starving Penelope before the hunting competition, he threw the maid who dared to give her children cutlery out on the spot without giving her anything and then proceeded to fire the entire kitchen staff. He also renovated the dining room which I imagined was his way of trying to dissociate Penelope's memories of starving with that room. He then began to open areas of the house to her which had been previously banned, as he wanted her to feel more like this was her home too. But he was also bad at dealing with her and could only give her gifts like blank checks, emerald mines, or host an elaborate birthday celebration to try and win her over - much like how Derick gave her gifts to make her forgive him. Like father like son I guess. The Duke was also the one she seemed to struggle to most with when debating whether to forgive him or not, as part of her wanted to as she did crave that family warmth. But when she looked back on everything, the realization that despite everything, the fact that he never once asked her how she actually felt, helped her to make her final decision not to forgive him.

Reynald also changed throughout the story when you compare him to how he behaved in the beginning. No one can deny that if she said one wrong word to him at the start of the novel, he would have actively killed her on the spot. But as the novel proceeds, he realized that his behavior was not okay and became concerned about her well-being. For example, how he was ready to rush to the palace after Callisto cut her throat, how he treated the cut on her neck during the hunting competition, his concern when Callisto kept contacting her, his jealousy towards Vinter or him wanting to find something she liked when she was unconscious following the poisoning to try cheering her up. The moment after the poisoning incident, where he breaks down because he's realized he is completely at fault and he himself knows that she'll never forgive him, shows how far he's come as a character. He's no longer the man at the start of the novel who would lash out aggressively at her but is now willing to help her achieve her own happiness - even if it meant never seeing her again if she leaves home.

Derick also is slowly developing as a character. Whilst his character has by no means improved in the same way as the Duke/Reynald, he has made small improvements. When you compare how he dealt with Emily's behavior at the beginning of the novel where he blamed Penelope and guilted her into keeping her as a maid, and how he dealt with the knights that insulted Penelope by actively firing them and even going as far as taking them to trial and eventual imprisonment, he has developed. Even in the sidestories, he has went to see her directly to apologize rather than calling her to his office like he did after the trial. He also made his biggest improvement by swallowing his pride and getting down on his knees to apologize and beg her - something I don't imagine any of us could have seen him doing before.

But none of their improved actions are enough to move her to forgive them which they'll have to suffer with the regret for the rest of their lives for. The only character from that household she's forgiven is Emily - and that's because Emily did honestly regret everything she did and worked to earn her forgiveness, never once betrayed her trust again, and even was willing to put her own life on the line to protect Penelope.

As for your comments of them having no major repercussion for their actions; Penelope no longer wanting to be involved with them is honestly the only way they would have actually suffered. They wouldn't have learnt anything from their behavior any other way. The novel also takes a very realistic approach with dealing with situations so whilst I don't agree with anything they've done to her, I don't get how them losing their position in society for neglecting her makes any sense. Yes, her starving in the family and being insulted by the staff, was because of how the family behaved but it was the actual staff who carried out these actions and they all faced the consequences for doing this once the family became aware of it - i.e. they were either fired or imprisoned for doing this. As for Reynald being disowned for accusing her of stealing a necklace and badmouthing her... It honestly doesn't make any sense to do any of that and seems like an over response. Yes the Duke wanted to hit him once he realized what Reynald did. But even he admitted he is in no position to do this as he also neglected Penelope. I'll repeat that I don't condone anything they did, but I think Penelope cutting off contact with them is the only punishment that makes sense in the context of the novel.

 

@Spade_Ladyz Thank you for compiling them! Should make it easier for new users

 

Ack I deleted it I will repost it in some even-number page, probably 70 as I seen some of the new readers only choose the page with a certain number.
Btw guy, i'd have just read through Reynolds's chapters, and Spoiler:
He was childish as usual. And that annoyed me. A LOT.
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.
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And Penny kisses Callisto right infront of him =))))))

 

I'm not fully sure this is the right place to share this but I found this video (the webtoon preview video I think)

It looks really good~.
It looks like an otome opening video.

 

I LOVE THIS VIDEO. It's so beautiful! I lost count of how many times I've seen it. And I'm still searching the name of the music used, I can't stop loving it

Ahhhhh, Reynolds I swear, every time I think this boy has done some progress, he doesn't hesitate to show me I've been wrong is he going to do his classic tsundere "I hate you but I love you but I don't know how to tell you so I'm going to act like a bastard" way? Because If it's like this, I'll need to collect A LOT of self-control. Otherwise, I'd prepare my knife

In any case, yes, Penny, kiss Callisto, KISS HIM WITH ALL YOUR STRENGHT. We will always accept a kiss scene with our precious prince especially in front of a Mr Tsundere Baby

 

@Mercyliana & @Kat Rina
I'm sorry to both but I can't find the song either ;u;

 

It's quite good tho. I mean the author leads us into thinking everything were slowly improving... But it wasn't in the end they didn't took her side untill it was too late.
I'm so excited for Rennald ~